S3 E9 - COAAA Advisory Council

Brett Johnson [: 00:00:00

Hi. This is Brett. Thanks for joining us. We're visiting the Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging's office for a collaborative program between the Looking Forward Our Way podcast and the COAAA podcast program titled pretend I know nothing about.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:00:16

I know, Brett, and we've had fun on, the COAAA podcast. You've been working with them on it. So this is, our first collaborative effort, so that's all good. You know, this is an opportunity to to talk about the leaders in the senior services arena. 1st, let me introduce my guest cohost Grant Ames, who is the government and community relations manager for the central Ohio area agency on aging. Grant, thank you so much for being with us today as our cohost. Tell the audience a little bit about yourself, COAAA and the advisory council.

Grant Ames [: 00:00:56

Thanks, Carol. Thanks for having me. I was like listening to your podcast. It gives me insight into all things aging, and I'm really excited to be able to highlight, well, the work that we do at COAAA a little bit more, for your listeners. So thanks for having me. Again, thank you. My name is Grant Ames. I'm the government community relations manager here at COAAA.

Grant Ames [: 00:01:17

I've been here for roughly 2 years. I'm coming up on the 2 year mark in the next few weeks, so that's pretty exciting. And the Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging is the federally mandated regional leader on aging. We are responsible for, distributing federal government funds and state funds. We're responsible for monitoring providers, and then we provide case management to roughly 13,000 individuals, that are my care or, in passport programs across the central higher region. So we kind of, we say that we plan, fund, and deliver services to older adults and their caregivers in the region. So but today, we have wonderful guests from our COAAA advisory council, as part of the Older Americans Act. And, I feel like we would do this whether whether it was a requirement or not because the value of hearing from community members is so vital to the work and so important.

Grant Ames [: 00:02:15

But the Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging has an advisory council, made up of roughly, 40 members. It's about 4 members from each of our 8 county, regional partners. So with most of the group is made up of, leaders from service organizations, residents, and older adults from the region that are appointed at large or, providers at the local level that are providing those direct services. So, really great to have that insight. Our group meets monthly about 8 times a year. And we take off the hottest months and the coldest months of the year, but, it's really just a great space for us to collaborate around issues impacting older adults, whether that's housing, transportation, or, other needs that come to light that we need to address together. So I'm really excited to have Melissa Owens here from the Licking County Aging Partners as well as Anna Tobin from Meals on Wheels, Older Adults Alternatives from Fairfield County. Great.

Grant Ames [: 00:03:18

I got it all in there.

Anna Tobin [: 00:03:19

It's

Grant Ames [: 00:03:22

okay. I work for the Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging, so I understand. But really excited to have them here. They're 2 of our great partners, in this work and just really, I see them as as mentors for me as I'm I'm doing this work. So I'm really excited to have them here to learn from them. Anna, you wanna kick us off? Sure.

Anna Tobin [: 00:03:42

Well, thank you so much for the opportunity to be here today and share information with your audience. I am very grateful and blessed to be a part of the Central Ohio Area Office on AG Advisory Council. You've asked me to give you a little bit of information about myself. I've been in the social service for about 18 years now. I've, been the executive director for a couple of large nonprofits, national nonprofits, I should say, but the past 10 years I've spent in the older adult arena, which has been awesome. I am a graduate of the Ohio University and, the past president of the Ohio Association of Senior Centers and current president of the Central Ohio Area Office on Aging's advisory council, and I say that because, it's all like gathering information over the years that really helps build your toolbox so that you can better serve in your community. And so it's been a real blessing. I am the executive director of the senior hub.

Anna Tobin [: 00:04:34

It is the local meals on wheels provider. We are also known as that big name you gave earlier as the meals on wheels older adult alternatives of Fairfield County. That's a huge mouthful. But we're charged with improving the quality of life for seniors in Fairfield County, as well as creating this whole county wide system of services and collaborating with others to make sure that our seniors are served, helping to improve their health, their connection, and independent living. So our aging our our services include nutrition services as being, the meals on wheels delivery, but a whole menu of 20 additional services all designed with seniors in mind.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:05:10

Anna, we were really lucky to have visited your new site, which is actually not new now a couple of years ago when you had just first moved in. It's a wonderful, location for the programs. And 2, for the audience that doesn't know Central Ohio well, Fairfield County is southeast of Columbus, and Lancaster is a very large city, in the state of Ohio. And so you've got a lot of folks out there depending on you.

Anna Tobin [: 00:05:41

Absolutely. We touch every inch of our county, Lancaster being the county seat. Right. We service close to 3,000 individuals each year through our services. But, yeah, Fairfield County is a great community. You know, lots of volunteers step forward to help. We know it takes all of us working together to make sure our seniors are cared for.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:05:57

Good. Thank you. And, Melissa,

Melissa Owens [: 00:05:58

tell us about you. Yes. Thank you for having me today. Similar to what Anna does, I'm the executive director for Licking County Aging Partners. So we provide the 60 plus services to residents of Licking County. We do meals on wheels, congregate meals, gosh, homemaking, personal care, transportation. We have vision services. We're a senior center.

Melissa Owens [: 00:06:18

So, we are very similar to Anna's organization. And, I'm relatively new to the aging world, a little been in it a little bit longer maybe than Grant, but I'm coming up on 4 years in the aging world, come from a nonprofit background, went to Ohio Northern University wanting to do business and have stumbled into the aging world and absolutely love it. There's a lot of opportunity and a lot of fun, and I'm excited, to be here today and share some stories and insights into what we do.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:06:45

Wonderful. Thank you so much to both of you. And, Melissa, you are, Licking County may be a little smaller than Fairfield, but you have intel coming into your backdoor. We do. So it's gonna be a busy, busy place for you too.

Melissa Owens [: 00:06:59

It is a busy place, and it's a large county demographically, 700 square miles. So when she talks about touching every inch of the county, we do also, but that puts a lot of miles on the vehicle.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:07:07

So Right. Right. So I I'm a member of the advisory council, an at large member. And after I've been there, this is my 2nd year, I witnessed a lot of important work being accomplished. And that's why I sort of pushed and wanted to have this podcast to talk about how members of the community don't just serve just their little community, but are really looking at this bigger eight county region and, integrating services across. Anna, you've been on the council as a representative for Fairfield County's, largest service provider. Why do

Anna Tobin [: 00:07:45

you feel your role as a council member is so important? And can you provide some examples on how your work on the council provides support to you, your agency, and your county? Sure. Thank you. As a council member, you know, we're really given that platform to come together and network with other organizations, but also to bring the needs of the individuals living in our community to the forefront, to the council. We are offered the opportunity to work with the the advisory council in participating in planning sessions. And, again, that's your voice, your local voice at the table, helping to support you know, the department of aging puts out their state plan on aging, and they're, you know, putting out mandates that they'd like to see happen. Well, that can't happen unless you've got boots on the ground. And so organizations like Melissa's and all all our other providers, you know, we come together and we talk about what's the plan look like, how how do we best serve. We support the the initiatives and the objectives of the council and put together our plan, and then we help, enforce that plan or, you know, roll that plan out on the local level.

Anna Tobin [: 00:08:49

The, excuse me, the advisory council also provides opportunity for learning about issues that's in the senior world, and I think, you know, as a newer person, you said it's hard to keep up with all the acronyms and all the things that It

Carol Ventresca [: 00:09:00

it's a alphabet soup in those meetings. Yes.

Anna Tobin [: 00:09:03

Yeah. But it comes to the forefront and you learn about it, and then you share with your colleagues and you talk and discuss about situations and challenges and that kind of thing. So that's been a great opportunity. The council provides support to our agencies. I mean, Grant and his team, I mean, just legislatively feeding that information to us so we have talking points that we can talk with our state legislators and promote and advocate for senior programs or senior funding. So that's always very, very beneficial. And, then I guess just the information, the funding, opportunities that come available that we might not otherwise be aware of, you know, the ARPA funds come around, healthy aging grants, that kind of thing. We might not have heard about that until we get to the council meetings and we hear Grant rolling that out or other agencies talking about it.

Anna Tobin [: 00:09:47

So information, networking, you know, being a part of that process and bringing, the needs of local communities to the forefront, I think, is the biggest benefit for us.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:09:56

Wonderful. Thank you. Melissa, can you think of any examples?

Melissa Owens [: 00:10:00

Just that we take the information, as Anna said, that we learn here and we take it back to our counties. Right? So I have learned that there's quite a few people in our county who don't understand how the process works. So I've found that I've come here and I learn and I'm educated and then take it back. Like, did you know this is how the process works and it this is the federal mandate and it comes down to the states, so they gets distributed to the, you know, to the different triple a's, and it's it's it all works together, but definitely, I think our county legislators, even elected officials, people don't understand what kind of a system it is. And so we are able to use that to our advantage to educate people and, show how, the resources we have locally aid the resources we have at a state level and federally, and they all work together to serve 60 plus individuals. So it has been a great opportunity to just learn from others, build connections, and really just gather some of that knowledge that people have acquired from years of doing this, and I'm very grateful for that.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:10:53

I, I got the impression from being in the meetings that, that one of the key, connections you have is with your county commissioners, and it must be much easier dealing with them when you've got information upfront and probably more information than they have.

Melissa Owens [: 00:11:12

Absolutely. And it's nice to have messages from COAAA also that support what we're trying to do in our county. Katie, especially in grant are always willing to say, if you want us to send a letter in support of that or defining that, and that is so great to have that backing. It really, just makes your argument stronger in your county, especially to your commissioners.

Grant Ames [: 00:11:30

I'm well, I asked this question to all of you because you're all advisory council members, but we have a wide array of folks with different experiences, life experiences, and expertise. As members of the advisory council. Just curious how you think these conversations, this connection to one another helps us kind of better define what's going on in our communities as well as, what the needs are of the folks that we serve.

Anna Tobin [: 00:11:54

Well, I think definitely, like you're saying, coming together and hearing the voices of all the different agencies that sit around the advisory council table is very interesting. So whether you're a small agency or a larger agency, I think it's so interesting that certain issues rise to the top. Transportation, housing instability, food and security, those type of things rise to the top in almost every organization. So, again, sitting around that table, you can look and see, like, people who are comparable to you, what works for them, what doesn't work for them, and you can take information back to your communities. I think just like Melissa pointed out, even talking about the process, the structure Mhmm. The funding streams, having those conversations on a community level helps your local commissioners understand this is what's happening in the senior world. This is funding that's available in the senior world and how we can work together with our community, whether it's levy funded support, you know, services or other funding streams within the community to help serve our seniors.

Melissa Owens [: 00:12:53

Yeah. I wanna add that it's, gosh, I love when I have a well, I don't love when I have problems, but when I have a problem and I've defined it before, I spend time trying to solve it, bringing it to the advisory council first. Typically, someone else is experiencing the same problem and they've already started working on solutions. So especially when you work for a nonprofit organization, you don't have a lot of time, and resources are limited. So you when you already have a group of people that you can kind of, ask first if they've encountered something similar and if they have any solutions, it's just a really great place to start. But also, they're able to kind of give you help you build the narrative around the problem and, explore other resources so that you can better help the individuals that you're serving in your community. So it's it's just an entire resource network to help you identify the problem, put data behind maybe how many other people are experiencing the issue, and then really put some information and resources behind, getting to the root of the issue and serving our clients better.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:13:54

This kind of goes right to my next question. And can you can you think of any issues that were affecting older citizens in your particular communities that, you have been able to advocate or help or inform them because of the information that you're receiving through the council?

Anna Tobin [: 00:14:15

Well, I think one of the biggest things just most recently was the distribution of the healthy aging grants for our local communities. That was, additional money. I I don't wanna say this wrong through the state budget that came to local communities, ARPA Mhmm. Monies that were needed to be spent. So as Melissa knows, money is always tight in a nonprofit. So, you know, you've got your food money, you've got money allocated to different programs and resources, but one of the things that maybe we didn't have enough funding for was housing stability. And that's helping people pay their rent, their utilities, their, mortgage.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:14:48

The new tax levels.

Anna Tobin [: 00:14:50

New taxes. Yeah. We even helped with that. So that was huge. And being able to have those resources available, our seniors face so many challenges, and and Medicare isn't always kind. Prescription costs are high, and, again, just inflation. People are struggling out there. And when we're capturing income at $800 a month, that's not going real far for paying up for a lot of things.

Anna Tobin [: 00:15:12

So the healthy age grants really significantly impacted older adults in our community, to help pay down those expenses. And then there was digital, literacy money that was available. That was another huge pocket of money that normally you don't have a lot of funds, discretionary funds to throw around at a program like that. We were able to establish a computer lab. We were able to establish, access to tablets for seniors, and now we're able to, through volunteers coming in to help us, provide digital classes, computer classes. So our seniors can access health care portals, their online banking. So they can order groceries online if they want to. It just really opens up a whole new world for our seniors when they, develop that digital literacy.

Anna Tobin [: 00:15:56

So those were, the most recent, I guess, opportunities that we were able to connect with, that really made a significant difference for for Fairfield County.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:16:06

Wonderful. Melissa, any

Melissa Owens [: 00:16:08

I think just with touching on the digital literacy that, I'm pretty passionate about tech and age tech as the new term is is coined, but there are so many opportunities to teach older adults technology, and there's just a lot of misconceptions surrounding, you know, they'll never be able to learn.

Anna Tobin [: 00:16:23

Mhmm.

Melissa Owens [: 00:16:23

They will, and they have to. I mean, that's gonna provide them a better life. And so us being given an opportunity to try try something. Like, the I think those healthy aging grants, that's what they allowed us to do was spend some money on digital literacy. It allowed us to try some different things. How do people respond to tablets? Do they need a computer lab where they can come learn in person? It kinda gave us the opportunity to try out some things so that we can help people long term, but I think technology is gonna be a big issue we continue to see. And I'll say just something else that we always receive a lot of help through, COAAA with, especially in Grant's position is just, updates on legislation in things that are happening within other departments. We get a lot of with the Ohio Department of Aging, but it's been very helpful for me to learn about, like, what benefits are stopping with with other departments and how's that affecting, what we're gonna see.

Melissa Owens [: 00:17:12

It's it's we're kind of gaining knowledge of, different things that are happening in the state of Ohio and how it's going to affect our clients so we can kinda get ahead of some of the problems, especially with things that have been happening in the last couple years, funding that we've had, but is now stopping. It's allowing us to maybe try to fill the gaps before we have that sudden void of services for clients. So it's very helpful.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:17:34

Good. Thank you. Thank you both.

Grant Ames [: 00:17:36

I always to to both of your points, I'm always amazed, that it doesn't matter what what part of our region that we're talking about, what, whether it's urban, suburban, or rural areas, the issues are very similar. We're all navigating the same challenges with folks and thinking about the same issues. And I think that, the advisory council really gives us a wonderful opportunity to think through those, but also for us to strategize about how to make sure that older adults are at the table for these conversations. I think that that's really where the value comes in. I think that we hear about housing instability, and most of the time, you're you're hearing about families and, and children, and you don't think about the instability and the insecurity for older adults and those issues. And I think that the more that we can come together and advocate and push for those needs, is really valuable. So I just thank you both, and I'm I'm just wanted to highlight that point for me and I always think, that's been something I've been so, not necessarily amazed by. I knew that that was gonna be consistent across the board, but I think that the fact that we're all thinking about it and all addressing it in our own ways and together has really been great.

Grant Ames [: 00:18:48

Yeah. I'll ask a little bit about the planning process. So advisory council is involved in our area plan. We do that every 5 years, as a region, thinking about the issues, as I was saying, that impact older adults, but also just getting some demographic information. How many folks are are acting as caregivers? How many folks out there are, providing kinship care to their grandchildren or, a lot a big focus that we'll have in the in the next round will be around LGBTQ plus older adults and their specific needs. Just curious about how you both feel about, that planning process. Is there, do you think there's a, value? Does COAAA come to you enough around that around that process? Do you think that you could provide more insight, or just kind of what has been your thoughts about that thus far?

Melissa Owens [: 00:19:40

Well, the regulations are a lot. I mean, I think there's definitely been a lot of education and communication from COAAA on what that process looks like, and it's great to be part of the planning process. Doesn't mean it always makes it easy. Fun is definitely not a word I would use with it. I was new to this world. So like I said, learning all the different codes that I had to learn that was kind of, you know, first going to aging. Ohio.gov and seeing all the different rules and even trying to figure out where to start is very overwhelming. And I see the purpose in all of them, but it can be, very overwhelming.

Melissa Owens [: 00:20:12

So during that time of COVID, when some of the restrictions were loosened, that's the world I came into. So now having some of them tightened back up, but also being able to have that conversation of, hey. This flexibility allowed us to adapt quickly and and allocate these dollars over here or do something differently. It's it's nice to be part of that conversation to make those changes in those in those rules and regulations. So the it's nice to be part of the planning process. I would say that doesn't always make it, easier. Sometimes I wish I could disagree with the amounts of money and stuff and such that are given out to different areas, but it's definitely given me more knowledge on how the aging demographic is increasing in different counties and what that looks like in Central Ohio. It it's mind blowing.

Melissa Owens [: 00:20:55

I mean, it really is. It I had no idea before I came into this world. So even when you think about, you know, oh, if we're gonna get a 5% increase, well, that's not great because we had a 10% increase in people over the age of 60. It's just a really interesting system to navigate and learn and, plan for. So it's it's it's very helpful to be part of the planning process, and take that back to the organization and try to use that to plan for your own organization. But, it for me coming into the to the world of aging during COVID when we had Cares Act funds and ARPA funds and now healthy aging grant funds, I think next year is gonna be an interesting year for our organization when all of those funds have have kind of stopped. So I'm appreciate having the relationships that I do now so we can continue to advocate for the importance of increased dollars in our area.

Anna Tobin [: 00:21:42

So I am a big planning geek. She's gonna tell you that right up front. So what I love about the whole planning process is we've got the Ohio Department of Aging that comes up with this big, hey, this is what we gotta do to make Ohio the best place to age. Right? Each of the PSAs take their piece. Here locally, this is what we're gonna do, and I love being at the table because at at that level, we're looking at c o triple a for guidance. What is it that we're working on? Because we're working from the ground up. Right? We're getting here's the directive. Hey.

Anna Tobin [: 00:22:12

We're gonna I'm just gonna throw out some stuff. Okay? So don't tell me to we're gonna work on caregiver. We wanna make sure our caregivers are supported so that they can be successful keeping people at home. We wanna make sure people are able to get to their medical appointments. I'm making up stuff now. Grain brands looking at me like that's not in our plan. That's not in our plan.

Melissa Owens [: 00:22:27

It was Okay.

Anna Tobin [: 00:22:28

But, yeah, you know, we're we're saying, how are we gonna affect this? How are we gonna do this? So we take your plan and we go back locally and we say, okay. This is what Ohio Department of Aging wants to see, and this is how c o triple a says we're gonna get there. How what are we gonna do locally to support their plan? So we're all supporting. It's like a big tree that just grows because we want to make sure our seniors are cared for, and we wanna make sure that they get the the, quality, services that they so deserve. And so I just I find planning awesome. We do our, 5 year strategic plan shortly after the CO trip ways come out, and, you know, I'm able to take that to our planning committee, to our board of directors and say, look. This is what we this is where we need to go, and this is how we're going to get there and do our part to make sure that we're completing not only your plan, but also help support the Ohio Department of Aging's plan.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:23:18

Great. You know, one of the things that when I was, the director of a nonprofit that I loved is those those opportunities for collaboration and being in groups that the advisory council does for us, that we learn more about other programs. In the time you've been on the council, are there collaborations either among council members or have you had opportunities where someone said, oh, yeah. I worked with such and such a group in my county and you're sitting back on, Hey, wait, I got one of those groups in my county. Let me see what I can do. Any kinds of examples of either of those? Well, we were

Melissa Owens [: 00:23:56

really just talking about this before we started the podcast, because I was throwing out, we've both been trying friendly visitor programs and what that's gonna look like when ARPA funds run out. And so I was referring to an organization that has a senior companion program and how we could maybe use that to help continue the program. So we we do get to share resources in that way because we have our organizations that serve each of our counties. Sometimes too, the conversation is, hey, this worked in my county. I'm not sure it would work in yours because it might be a difference in demographic or a different in just population. So sometimes we can have those conversations too. Here's what worked for me, but I'm not sure what would work for you because this re resource doesn't exist yet. Or the partner, you know, we have county transportation, and this community is moving towards that, but that looks different in every area.

Melissa Owens [: 00:24:39

So, I think we're able to give each other ideas and then also maybe throw out some pros and cons of, hey. This might not work because of this, or, hey. You should try this because it did work well for us.

Anna Tobin [: 00:24:49

And I'm just trying to think of something that we emulated that we had, learned from the council and and at the I think it was Franklin County, did a guardianship service board, which is a, probate type thing for those that can't care for themselves and they need a guardian to be put in place. Locally, our Fairfield County developed a guardianship board, And I know that some of that model was the same model as Franklin County was using, but we were able to come to the council and say, we're gonna try to emulate this in our community. Can we get some start up funding for it? And it was just wonderful that we were able to collaborate with the council to help provide funding Right. To start a guardianship service board in our community, which is amazing.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:25:36

It and it's nice seeing I other people's mistakes, and I'm using it kind of an air quote Absolutely. But finding out what doesn't work so that you can skip those steps. Yeah. Wonderful.

Anna Tobin [: 00:25:46

Absolutely. We learn from each other. I think that I think we all say that over and over with the council. It's we just learn from each other.

Grant Ames [: 00:25:53

I think it's also great for newer folks that come into the region into the leadership roles. I know we have some new executive directors of some of our smaller focal points in some of the rural counties, and I think them being able to connect with folks that have been doing this work for a a long time or have a lot of experience has been really helpful to, like, build their, build their confidence and build their energy around the issue. And I think it's it's just been really helpful. I know I've reached out to both of you in the past around that, but I I see it as such a value for the region to make sure that we're strong in all of our areas. And I just think it's really wonderful. I know that we're getting close on time, so, I'll ask one final question. So our goal of this podcast is to demonstrate how local seniors can be brought to the forefront and agencies providing senior services have greater understanding to their needs. Thank you for sharing your experiences with senior services.

Grant Ames [: 00:26:51

I'd like to ask if you have any words of wisdom, before we end the podcast today.

Anna Tobin [: 00:26:56

I would say get involved with your advisory council. If you're interested in aging, issues, if there's opportunity to be at the table, if you're an older adult, I think that you're welcome to apply for a seat. Is that correct? Is that at large member?

Grant Ames [: 00:27:11

Yeah.

Anna Tobin [: 00:27:11

I don't wanna I'm looking at granted.

Grant Ames [: 00:27:13

Nope. We I am accepting applications. We always are open to folks that wanna wanna put their name in the hat for sure.

Anna Tobin [: 00:27:21

Alright. My second word of wisdom would be to reach out to your local focal point office on aging like Melissa's group or the, senior hub. There's so much out there. There's so many services available that are for older adults and they don't know they're available. So I'm just saying if you're finding challenges as you're aging, reach out to your local office on aging. They offer so much more than just meals. And then I'd be admit if I didn't mention volunteering. Volunteering for your local offices on aging, your focal point agencies, they need the help to care for the older folks.

Anna Tobin [: 00:27:53

As Melissa pointed out, they're coming on strong as those baby boomers are coming on. We're all seeing our numbers just skyrocket. And so it takes many hands, and we're just always looking for volunteers, whether it's filing paperwork or it's delivering meals or being a friendly visitor or doing chore assistance. There's so many ways you can get involved. So I would encourage you to get involved.

Carol Ventresca [: 00:28:14

Good point. Thank you.

Melissa Owens [: 00:28:15

That is I would just echo that too, that there's something that everyone can do. And I think always spreading that, anti ageism message too of, you know, it's a wonderful thing that we're all getting older, but think about it, plan for it so that you don't find yourself in a situation that you feel you have no control over. And then do that for someone else. Lend that aid and, ask how you can assist and get involved is the is the best way to have your voice heard. Get involved.

Brett Johnson [: 00:28:37

Well, many thanks to our guest cohost, Grant Ames, government and community relations manager, Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging, as well as our 2 expert guests, Anna Tobin, executive director, Meals on Wheels Older Adult Alternatives at Fairfield County, and Melissa Owens, executive director of Licking County Aging Partners, for joining us today. Listeners, thank you for joining us. You'll find the contact information and resources we discussed in the podcast show notes and on our website at looking forward our way.com. And we are looking forward to hearing your feedback on this or any of our other podcast episodes.