S3 E7 - Championing LGBTQ+ Elders: Intergenerational Support and Advocacy

Katie White [: 00:00:11

Welcome to Pretend I Know Nothing About. I'm Katie White, your host, Administrator of COAAA.

Katie White [: 00:00:17

On today's episode, we hear from Al Cho and Kayla Humphrey about unique considerations and challenges for the LGBTQ plus aging population. Let's get into it. Well, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here today. Let's start with introductions. Al, tell us your name, what program you're working in, and what you did before you got to COAAA.

Al Cho [: 00:00:41

Well, thank you for asking, first of all, and thank you for having me on. I'm very excited to be here. My name is Al Cho, and I use he and him pronouns. I am part of senior options program, and I am a case manager there. Or what do we call ourselves also? Aging programs care coordinator. Oh, and I coordinate that care. My previous position was at Age Friendly Innovation Center. Heard some really wonderful people, got that going in Columbus.

Al Cho [: 00:01:15

But beside the point, I worked in research and advocacy and assisting on research there. And I was a co investigator on a local LGBTQ plus aging project where we did a qualitative study and looked at our, local LGBTQ plus elders and some of our providers as well to try and identify some of the needs and strengths of our local community.

Katie White [: 00:01:40

Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you. And Kayla. Yeah.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:01:44

So my name is Kayla Humphrey. I am a management analyst here, and also the chair of the PRIDE Committee. Before this, I worked primarily with people living with HIV, and gender affirming medical care. So we did a lot of education, crisis management, removing barriers so so people could get medications and care and access to, their medical appointments and, really just trying to do everything we could to make sure that all of that was accessible for that population because we definitely know that that's that's a struggle. So so, yeah, I'm happy to be here.

Katie White [: 00:02:24

Great. And so you're both licensed social workers. Right? Okay. Just like to make sure that everybody knows that because there's so much that social workers can and are doing, and we need to make sure that we're calling that

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:02:35

out. Absolutely.

Al Cho [: 00:02:36

So today's episode, we are focusing on a priority population that is named in the Older Americans Act as priority, named in the Ohio Department of Aging, as a priority, and absolutely named at COAAA as a population that we need to prioritize. So I wanted to start by just kicking us off a little bit. And what I love about my 2 guests today is you both know so much. And so I just get to post the questions. I barely have to talk, which almost never happens. I'll probably talk a lot. But let's start with the federal older Americans act regulation updates. First time they were updated since 1988, I think.

Al Cho [: 00:03:15

So a little bit has changed since then. So, Al, why don't you give us a little overview, about those regulation updates?

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:03:23

So what is really exciting about, these regulations updates is really kind of leaning into redefining what is priority here. And then by naming that priority very specifically, it goes further into delineating what needs to be done to specifically serve these priority populations. And so we're really shedding light on a community of unique need and what we would say a population of greatest need. And that's one of the main changes that we look at here is elevating people aging with HIV and LGBTQ plus older adults as populations of greatest need. And we can talk more about why that is as we progress. But the most recent reauthorization of the Older American Act actually requires that state and local departments of aging requires, which is really nice, to engage in outreach to LGBTQ plus older adults, collect information on their needs, and collect information on if they are meeting those needs. So it's some really wonderful opportunities for learning our communities better, reporting, and creating more to support people. Of the reauthorization priorities, support people.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:04:32

Of the reauthorization priorities that center around our greatest social need population that we're talking about here, I wanted to highlight just a couple that were pretty exciting, I think. So one of those would be defining the LGBTQ plus older people and older people living with HIV as a population of greatest social need in statute. So some very formal acknowledgement. An inclusion of comprehensive and explicit protections against discrimination, updated definition of abuse and elder abuse to include malicious or negligent denial of a person's gender identity or sexual orientation and denial of access to medically necessary medication. There's also a lower age at which transgender older people are gonna be eligible for services now, which is gonna start at 45.

Al Cho [: 00:05:29

That's excellent. I hadn't I didn't I knew it was lower. I didn't know it was 45. That's great.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:05:33

And that makes a lot of sense given the very unique challenges of our transgender population and our transgender older adults and health challenges environment, etcetera.

Al Cho [: 00:05:44

Okay.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:05:44

And again, so for people with age, living with HIV and aging with it, they're now gonna be considered in that area arena of older adult head of 40.

Al Cho [: 00:05:52

Okay.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:05:53

So that is also going down. There's gonna be improved sexual orientation and gender identity data collection that is specifically promoted in this. And then adding HIV to routine health screening lists that are gonna be included. This one I am most excited about, I think, which is to update the definition of family to include family of choice. Wow. And this is gonna be really exceptional when we talk about caregiving.

Al Cho [: 00:06:23

Big time. Yeah.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:06:24

Free and and just, legal circumstance. Mhmm. So, of course, this will also bring in a requirement for cultural competency training and the LGBTQ plus and HIV Long Term Care Bill of Rights, which is gonna be very exciting.

Al Cho [: 00:06:42

And that's still to be written, the bill of rights, but they are putting in statute that that will be written. Thank you for that overview. And Kayla, tell me a little bit about your experience. So we know that these improvements and updates are being made, but talk to me about the lack of this information in statue in your previous work and what types of challenges that that, creates for folks.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:07:04

Yeah. I think that when anytime that there is not in writing statute something to protect our special populations, it really sends this message to the community that they are not thought of.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:07:19

Mhmm.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:07:20

And when you send that message to human beings, and you think of, especially older adults, when you send that message to someone for 40, 50, 60, 70 years, you start to believe that.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:07:31

Mhmm.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:07:31

And so I think that in my past, what I have seen is a lot of folks who were coming to receive care were often that younger population because that younger population is really receiving more of that updated information of like, hey. You know, HIV is not a death sentence anymore. It's very manageable, like all of those things. And so for, I think, older adults, this is going to be a huge step in the right direction of really getting them the care they need, the care that they have a right to, and really you start to kind of enrich their lives as they're able to move forward, feeling like they are part of the discussion and part of the question.

Al Cho [: 00:08:19

Mhmm. And so part of the decreasing of the age, is that because individuals experience a lifetime of discrimination? And so sort of biologically, that stress and those things that are occurring, suppressing pieces and parts about yourself being denied certain care, Is that why we're seeing the decrease in age? Because we know biologically they might need it earlier.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:08:43

That's certainly my theory. We do have a lot of information that has been done over the years on minority stress, and then we've specifically kind of grown that to look at chronic minority stress.

Al Cho [: 00:08:54

Okay.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:08:54

And so just interestingly enough with our older adults, and we can look it up to like 3 generations, and we can talk about those. We have got invisible, silent, and pride, but of those are are silent and our pride generations. On average, we're looking at having, about 6.5 incidents of victimization and discrimination over the life course, and those would be acute instances. And that doesn't exactly speak to the nature of societal oppression and discrimination, the normalization of microaggressions, etcetera. And so when we look at chronic minority stress, it just equals an accelerated risk. It accelerates all the other risks that are existing within that person's condition, their health condition. And so, and there are some major ones with that. I mean, I think all of them are very important, but we can point to some specifically like cognitive decline.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:09:53

Okay. Right? And cognitive decline affects our social interaction. It affects how we do our activities, daily living, and things of that nature. And then of course, once those degrade, we see even further health degradation. Mhmm. So that's certainly my thought around that.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:10:10

I think it's it's a twofold. I think that the like you said, how like, the long exposure to that trauma, we know trauma affects the body. But I think too, we we now know that there are lifesaving medications that folks living with HIV can take, and those also hit the body kind of hard too. Oh. Those medications are really hard on the liver. Those, you know, and and granted, the I think for a lot of folks think that the reward definitely outraised the risk. They're you know, folks living with HIV are living long, long healthy lives. But when taking antiretrovirals, you do have to have, you know, your labs checked very regularly to make sure that they're not having a negative effect on the body, because they are.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:10:59

They're tough on the body. Okay. And especially when you talk to folks who, maybe it's their first time starting antiretrovirals because they've been discriminated against before. Even that initial starting of medication is really tough on the body and causes a lot of sickness at

Al Cho [: 00:11:17

first. Okay.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:11:18

So I think it's the combination of the 2. I think when you combine that, the the long term trauma with, you know, I really need this medication, but it's kinda it's kinda tough on my body. I think we really they're just a population that has to be focused on way more than what we're currently doing.

Al Cho [: 00:11:38

Yes. Yes. And so we're kind of, we're moving in the right directions, federal level included it, major win. It has been included in, the Ohio Department of Aging, ODA's plan for a number of years. So I do wanna share a little bit out of the advancing elder justice and equity portion of ODA SAPA, the strategic area plan on aging. So they talk about priority populations. And in this plan, LGBTQ plus is named also named Ohioans of color, rural or Appalachian regions, Ohioans with disabilities, immigrants and refugees, individuals with low income, religious minorities, and individuals that live alone. And each of these priority populations, we need to be asking more questions.

Al Cho [: 00:12:25

We need to be understanding those unique needs. But overall, in general, the plan goes on to share that these groups are more likely to experience ageism in addition to other forms of discrimination. So there's those, compounding things. Right? You might be LGBTQ plus and older and a woman of color. That's a lot coming at you in forms of discrimination. Right? They have increased risk of exposure to trauma, toxic stress, violence, and stigma. They face policy and system in inequities. They live in environments that do not support healthy aging, and there's a lack of access to culturally or linguistically appropriate services.

Al Cho [: 00:13:07

And so then as a result of all of these, the priority populations are more likely to experience poor outcomes as they age. So all of that is in writing. All of that is named. And so what do we know outside of what we're seeing in reading and plans? Tell me more about, like, the everyday lived experiences. Tell me what this is like for individuals in the community that you're talking to.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:13:31

So for individuals in the community that I've been talking with, I have been really fortunate to be working with Christine Happel, on investigating, learning more, about our local LGBTQ plus older adults or elders as we sometimes call them in our LGBTQ plus community. And one of the first things I wanted to lean into that you had mentioned is ageism. Mhmm. We in my work and time in Age Friendly Innovation Center, we did a lot that focused on ageism and advocacy, but also tying it in to the ongoing research that we did in a variety of realms. And we see this very prevalent in the LGBTQ plus community. There's exceptional amount of ageism. And, of course, across the board with older adults, we know that ageism can cost about seven and a half years of somebody's life. And the LGBTQ population does not escape this.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:14:28

In fact, this is a very age segregated population. It's also culturally, as we have in the zeitgeist, more and more dialogue and examples and things like media, etcetera, of LGBTQ plus folks, we aren't seeing the older adult as much. Their narratives are not part of it. Interesting. And then a lot of what we would think as social gathering places, even in our own community and even in Columbus, right? Where are they accessible, and who are they available to? Yeah. Numerous of the older adults that I spoke to about this, and plenty who are friends of mine, they say that they can't go into spaces, and it is not just because they might be ignored, but it's in fact because they will be accused, accused of maybe targeting younger people, that they're kind of I'm trying to find a word here. Am I glad to hear this? I don't know,

Al Cho [: 00:15:29

but it's- Grooming is the terrible word.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:15:32

Let's use that terrible word. It's extreme, but you know what? Like, eat is something that people use.

Al Cho [: 00:15:38

Mhmm.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:15:38

So that like takes people further and further away. We don't have as much programming and things for older adults who are LGBTQ plus identified, especially those with multiple intersecting identities. And then I'll like, especially, so I'm like raising my hands lately up over my head, folks with disabilities. Yes. That they have all of this intersection and that is increasing their loneliness and isolation because folks, that I've spoken with, they also, you know, LGBTQ plus folks and older adults historically have lower incomes, especially transgender people, very, very much lower incomes. And so not only are they isolated, they don't have access to the same technology Mhmm. That other people do that keep them in contact with community, etcetera. So that gets that shuts them down more and more, less access to nutritious food, and then all these negative health outcomes, even from just these couple of thoughts, they build up.

Al Cho [: 00:16:37

Yeah. Yeah. They're compounding. Did you wanna comment?

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:16:39

Yeah. Like, I think that when a lot of when I did see individuals in in my past who were older adults, the conversation was always, I'm so lonely. Right? I want, I'm just lonely. I want to be able to talk with people about the fact that my partner passed away or that I, you know, just wanna go out maybe to the Pride Festival, but I don't wanna go alone. And so really trying to give them resources, we were giving them resources for really things that were really geared to the younger population because that's all we could find. Interesting. And so it was really hard to try to have conversations of this is, you know, the limited resources I have in trying to have a conversation of try pushing yourself outside of that comfort zone. But fact of the matter is it's hard because they should have areas that they can go that are acceptable, that they are comfortable, that are that are geared toward the types of things that older adults want to do.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:17:41

And I think that Al said something huge, which is that, unfortunately, there is kind of this, separation between the younger LGBTQ plus population and the older one. And so I think what happens is the younger one, the idea is very, nightlife party excitement, that kind of thing. And not to say that older adults don't want some of that, but I think that maybe those places aren't as accessible if you're in a wheelchair. Mhmm. Or, you know, maybe you're someone who is living a sober life. You don't wanna meet in bars. Mhmm. So

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:18:16

you know

Al Cho [: 00:18:16

With a financial piece to

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:18:17

it too. Right.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:18:18

And so even just community things, I think that are are great because it's great for older adults, but then it's like, how do we how do we tie in that aspect though of this isn't just for older adults. This is accepting you for exactly where you are, how you identify. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that's where we see a lot of a lot of issue is is when you have that overlapping of, I'm not just gay, I might also be black, and I might also be, you know, all of these layers, it would have to it would have to be hard to not feel like the the world isn't made for you.

Al Cho [: 00:18:59

Yeah. And so say we create a space that is inclusive and ideas that come from the community. When we outreach and share about something like that, is there also a fear that showing up to something like that you could be targeted?

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:19:17

Sure. I think I think from just from personal experience in the LGBTQ plus community, I think there is that fear anytime anytime this community gathers in general.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:19:33

Yeah.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:19:35

I know that, you know, for example, like the the pride festival is beautiful and it's wonderful, but it also has a layer of anxiety of at what point this big, beautiful, wonderful thing become a

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:19:46

trap. Mhmm.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:19:47

That's scary. Mhmm. And so then when you think of folks who are older and maybe can't move as quickly or, you know, those things that, gosh, we never wanna think about being a possibility. But, you know, if you're in a wheelchair or if you're not as able, like, those things become a whole lot scarier. Yeah. So I think if we create spaces for for for these populations, I think there has to also be an explanation or, maybe, like, pre prefacing that there will be security measures Yeah. And things like that so that people know that they they are safe here Mhmm. Because their safety was thought about and is marked as important.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:20:27

Yeah.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:20:28

Oh, just, a wonderful story or complicated, but grew into wonderful outcomes, from folks I was speaking with in Cleveland who eventually, were running the current existing LGBTQ plus community center. It's gorgeous. They were saying at first, they were meeting with their older adults. Folks would meet sometimes in basements. They would And they felt more comfortable going into those spaces. Now those 6 spaces were less accessible, but given those lifetimes of discrimination, they didn't wanna gather in a place where there were windows. Interesting. Which is a really fascinating thing.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:21:02

That's fascinating. Yeah. And then just to like as a random bit, but to hearken back to the good points that you are making, Kayla, about like loneliness, isolation, etcetera, and the things that compound that. You know, older adults who are LGBTQ plus are less likely to be in touch with their families of origin. They're less likely to have children. And especially as we reach a certain age of older adult, they're also less likely to be partnered. Yeah. So this is, like, even more compounded for them.

Al Cho [: 00:21:32

So one thing I think I need a little definition on, you said there's, different generations, invisible, silent, and pride. Can you help put parameters and define those 3 different generations out? And then, Kayla, I'd love to hear well, both of you, what some of the nuanced or unique challenges and opportunities exist within each of those generations too.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:21:55

Yeah. Absolutely. So to speak to our generations, and this must be on a different document that I very specifically wrote out with the actual dates. But the first one that we have to look at is our invisible generation, and these are folks we might think of, being born in the 19 twenties, 19 thirties. The dialogue of their existence was for not. We can have another conversation about the role of transgender people in the 19 twenties in American culture, but by and large, they did not exist. That kind of what we call gay blindness, sometimes, I mean, that was just what it was. If you are 2 people to get their friends, their roommates, of course, that persisted for a very long time, but entirely invisible.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:22:45

Then we have our silence generation. Okay? And so our gen silent folks, I like to bring to mind the lavender scare. I like to think the 1940s 50s, right? And so at this point, LGBTQ plus to be gay, etcetera, this is considered a disorder. This is psychological disorder at this point. And it is also the case that if you were to be discovered, you are at risk of losing your housing, your job, and not only that, there's a public shame element tied to it as well, because you would be published in the newspaper. They would make it known, and so people were silenced by culture and policy around them. And then we come into the pride generation, and I like to think that the pride generation also has on the latter form of it an aspect of what I kind of think of as the HIV generation. Folks are were coming into their maturity during the height of the HIV Okay.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:23:49

Crisis. But with the pride generation, we're thinking more of people who maybe were coming to maturity in the 19 sixties. Okay. Right? These are folks who are participating in pride, these major liberation movements. These are folks who also saw the end of the pathology of being gay, right? That ended in, I wanna say, 1973.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:24:16

And

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:24:17

so we definitely see unique challenges, unique needs, and unique social situations and events that are going to impose different kinds of stress on the individuals, right? Like our folks in our pride generation, it wasn't just that, but also they were experiencing things like the Vietnam War. Right. Right? We go back and we've got people experiencing World War 2, etcetera. So there's a lot of consideration and means that we really need to be aware of our folks from the different generations so that we can serve them most effectively. Yeah.

Al Cho [: 00:24:55

Okay. Yeah. Great job giving that overview.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:24:57

Yeah. Being mindful of that generational stress. I loved that you mentioned, like, the Vietnam War. Right? Because, like, there's this idea that, like, I think sometimes in my brain, I think of, like, queer culture and events and then, like, you know, things that everybody knew about, like the Vietnam War. And so then you when you take a second to think, they overlapped, guys. And so to think of someone we you know, I feel like, the Vietnam War was a great example because I feel like we have all met maybe an older adult who was like a Vietnam vet. And sometimes, like, that you know, you can tell that trauma is still very much there. And then let's tack on the fact that maybe we were, you know, a queer identified person and had to be very quiet about that and very scared about that.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:25:46

So I love you said that, Al, but I think these 3 generations, very much like Al said, I think I think sometimes we try to put folks under an umbrella and and say, okay. All LGBTQ plus older adults. Right? But Al is 100% correct that when you think about it, all of these individuals are just that. They're individual. Right? And so for that invisible population, there there is a lot of this is my roommate, and this has been my roommate for 20 years. Right? And so I think that how we respond to those things, you know, if you're in a home visit or if you're seeing someone at an assisted living or you're trying to help someone get an assisted living where they can share a room with their partner. Like, these are things that we deal with here that are difficult to navigate sometimes. And so thinking, okay, this is not, even if this is just just this person's roommate, let's, you know, air quotes.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:26:49

But if even if this person is just this person's roommate, look how important this is to them. And that importance means that if we take this source away when we know that these populations have such limited resources, what are we doing to that person's psyche? Right? And then, you know, the silent generation, that that idea of announcing who you are could put a detriment on your life, like how powerful that is. And to say, you know, in some of those situations where someone you know, I've I've heard older adults say things like, well, I can't I can't, you know, I can't touch my wife when we're when we're there. I can't hold her hand. And I and and it's hard. Right? Because there's the millennial part of me that says, you know, fight back, challenge that, hold their hand. You you live happily. Right? But then there's this other part of how am I to tell you that being safe or feeling safe is is is not the right way.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:27:54

Right?

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:27:55

Mhmm.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:27:56

And then I think for that pride generation, like, the height of HIV, wow, like and how that impacted the LGBTQ plus population. I remember and it stuck with me to this day meeting an older gentleman who, had been diagnosed with HIV, many, many, many years ago and was, living undetectable. Like, he had medication. He was not able to, you know, pass that virus on, but still had not engaged in intercourse with anyone since the day he got that diagnosis because of all of that fear

Al Cho [: 00:28:37

Mhmm.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:28:38

And media that was around HIV of you will die and you will harm other people that, you know and I remember speaking with him and saying, but you're undetectable. Like, you are welcome to be intimate with other people. And he was like, no. I I will not risk it because that's how their brain was hardwired by everything they were hearing. And so, yeah, being being mindful of the fact that, you know, maybe the the maybe the the queer millennials are so much different than the silent generation and the invisible generation and being mindful that we have to treat them and take into consideration the special nuances.

Al Cho [: 00:29:20

And so do individuals across the generations get together? Is there intergenerational support? There's some there's some facial expressions and body language that's making me think no.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:29:37

Well, I am just really glad that you asked that question, honestly. With working with Christine Happel, this is really something that we uncovered time and time again. Really? Right? This is a narrative we hear very regularly that it is not that it is not a common thing. No, I have spoken to some folks who are particularly involved in like church communities that have LGBTQ plus friendly church communities, and they tend to get a little bit more intergenerational interaction. For some folks who might have their, chosen family might have other generations involved with it, then there might be getting that exposure. But by and large, we don't have any formal or even very popular informal kind of structures of intergenerational connection going on for our folks. But we do know that the want is there. Okay.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:30:33

It is very clearly expressed. It is very clearly expressed because people want to share their knowledge. Oh, yeah. They want to share their wisdom. They want to share their joy and their pain, and they want to support others. They want to support the younger people and and give them somebody who's gonna sit there and listen to them very attentively to, to share with them their wisdom. They might not get that opportunity

Al Cho [: 00:31:00

Right.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:31:00

Otherwise in life, but also to learn from each other. Plenty of the older adults that I spoke to, you know, they were like, I feel invigorated when I spend time with younger age cohorts. It gives me greater life force. It helps me feel healthier and more engaged, and there's just very clear benefit. So, one of the things that I would highlight here is that attempts are being made. Sure. Okay. Right? That that is happening.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:31:30

I I know of 2 in specific instances, but the fact is because these dialogues like we're having right now, because of, you know, dialogue that is entering our cultural zeitgeist, like, is going to be happening more, but it really needs people to stand behind it and push.

Al Cho [: 00:31:47

Okay.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:31:47

I was very fortunate at Ohio State to work with, Age Friendly Innovation Center, specifically Christine, and, the Wexner Center For the Arts. And so what we did with them was we created an intergenerational event for storytelling and making collages. Great. And just supporting community conversation, right? Baseline, let's figure out what we like, don't like, where are we interested. And a lot of times, in a lot of those conversations that I got a joy of listening to, like many instances, the age differences, gaps just kinda disintegrated.

Al Cho [: 00:32:22

Right. Oh, yeah.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:32:23

We're like, oh my gosh, you like crocheting. I like crocheting. Listen, that does not have an age limit on it. Yeah. Yeah. And then it was very excellent because Christine and a couple of their, close people, they put on an intergenerational LGBTQ plus picnic.

Al Cho [: 00:32:38

Right.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:32:39

And so another opportunity. And so we need kind of formal, like, institutional based engagements as well, and we need more community members Yeah. Taking that on. So is it there? No. Not exactly in the ways we'd like it to be.

Al Cho [: 00:32:54

Or not yet.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:32:55

Not yet. But that's the thing. Right? That's a very social work term here too. It's just not yet. Not yet. It's a when we get there and a how, but I do have every confidence in it.

Al Cho [: 00:33:04

I do too. And Kayla, what other either formal or informal, whether social advocacy, what groups are out there that exist?

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:33:13

Admittedly, my I think a lot of my understanding and knowledge, is for rural areas. That is where I'm from. That's where I went to school. There was a lot of that. So I think when it comes to up here in Columbus, it was funny because I think that there is this expectation that, you know, you move to the big city and all the resources are there and they're endless. Right? And so it's funny to come come to a big city and realize the issues are very much the same. And so I think I think there's there always, you know, there's like Stonewall Columbus. There's, you know, Mosaic, that does some things, and, and there's the, like, the lavender listings and, and things like that.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:33:57

And I think I think they're I think they exist. However, I think there is a focus on maybe a little bit of that younger population.

Al Cho [: 00:34:10

Okay.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:34:11

And I think that's where that's where this hard part lies is, like, there are some LGBTQ plus resources, but in my experience, many of them are really not, older adult focused.

Al Cho [: 00:34:24

Okay.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:34:25

And I think that, especially when you're talking about, like, you know, we're defining the the older LGBTQ plus population as a very serious population that needs us. Really, it needs its own focus. And so, you know, Al, you said something about, like, the the intergenerational, and all I could think was, you know, we have we know based on research that our LGBTQ plus populations feel isolated and alone. And it's like the idea of bringing together the older population with the younger population, if nothing else, creating that connection so that it limits some of that social is isolation, I think is huge. So I think, you know, the idea of intergenerational, events and things like that, I feel like they are limited, but I think we're they're definitely getting a little bit more attention.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:35:25

Can I also this came to mind as you were talking? I'm like, I forgot of 2 of these very special things in Columbus that we do have. Yes. And that is the Columbus women's chorus and the Columbus gay men's chorus. Yes. And there is actually quite a bit of intergenerational interaction in those, so saying that we're taking the steps there, that's very fun. They exist, and they just become more and more open to, basically, if you sing this range, you can join us. You sing this range, join us. You know, we're gonna dissolve some of these other layers.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:35:56

And they do it well.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:35:56

They do it very well.

Al Cho [: 00:35:58

Older lesbians advocating for change. We have a local chapter

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:36:01

of that.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:36:02

We love them. And just to kind of like round out this thing about, like, meeting each other in the generations, we're so much stronger when we work together. And the fact is we have all of these amazing people who survive circumstances that a lot of younger folks and I'm gonna throw myself in there. I'm 35, and I still consider myself very much on the younger side of that. They have resilience and experiences that we cannot even imagine. We need their strength and ideas and persistence to move forward as well. There are 13 anti trans bills going on in Ohio right now, in 2024. 2 of those have already passed.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:36:46

We need everybody on board with their ideas and experience, so we only stand to benefit for bringing our elders back into the community

Al Cho [: 00:36:56

Yeah. With us. And I wanna make sure we talk about pride too. So, Kayla, you're chair of pride. Tell us about pride and what that is at COAAA.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:37:04

Yeah. So the pride committee, is, is an organization that we have here that anybody is welcome to join. We are happy to have my goal would be that everybody would be a part of the pride committee, but, that we are happy to have anyone join. That really, it's kinda interesting because I in the past, the pride committee has done a couple of fundraisers, definitely made sure that, you know, they were present at, like, the pride festival. The fundraisers, they all you know, we always donate to another LGBTQ plus organization in the community. And so it was actually really interesting because as I was fortunate enough to take over chair this year, I, I kinda surveyed the our members and said, what are you you know, based on, like, what the pride committee has been doing, what do you wanna keep doing, and what do you see a need for? And it was unanimous that everyone said, I really want to, like, be out in the community more. We really want to spread that CO triple a has a pride committee and that we are thinking about our, you know, our queer older adults, and in trans and and and all of all of the the the numbers and letters. Right? And so I think they're something that we are really, really important to us this coming year is making sure that we are having more of that community presence, having more presence here at the agency so that individuals, maybe even if you don't have time to join the pride committee, that you know that we are here, we are advocating for you.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:38:43

We have your back. There is a space for you. And then really just trying to bring that awareness to, you know, when you think we have 400 employees, like, making sure that we are spreading that knowledge, providing education if that's what it takes, just anything we can do to make sure that everybody here who maybe feels a little bit different, knows that, like, they belong here and they're accepted here.

Al Cho [: 00:39:12

Oh, so good.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:39:14

My heart is so warm. I don't know what heart cockles are, but every single one of them, I felt I felt them.

Al Cho [: 00:39:21

It's good. It's good. Okay. So let's keep in this space then. If you had all the money and time and resources in the world, what program would you create?

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:39:30

Would you like to go first with that, Kayla? No. You take it.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:39:34

Okay. See the look on your face.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:39:35

Pull bodies in. Into it. I'm like, here we go. Here we go. My dreams, my programming. What I would really love to have is services that are very specifically so, I mean, the whole program would probably be, you know, offer something for people of all ages, but really to focus on our LGBTQ plus older adults. I wanna see case management. I wanna see things like friendly caller programs that are for our LGBTQ plus people that might not be able to get out in community to each other.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:40:10

I wanna see different kind of collaborative programs on, like, communications, education, and technological education to get people more in touch. Oh, yeah. And other really something that brings very intentional intergenerational programming as well. Like it houses some intergenerational programming and creates a network of support to other organizations that are doing that. I would like to see this kind of whatever creation I am imagining right now. It also has things like a case management aspect and a very good resource connection. And I and I think of that for so many things like long term care ombudsman and things like that that are gonna protect people, not just folks that are in their home, but folks who are gonna have to be in long term care, facilities, communities. So that's probably the part the first, like, 7 to 8 points that I would include with this, but, you know, I'll I'll send you my dream.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:41:15

It's a document.

Al Cho [: 00:41:16

I knew you'd have it, and it's detailed, and it's gorgeous, and it's amazing. I know it. We already know. I can't wait to read it.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:41:21

It's a it's a full proposal we already know. No. I I'm I'm nodding along with Al, so hard that I almost headbanged. I I think I think that I I see something very similar. I think for me, I if there were were endless resources and money, we would definitely be we would have, like, like, LGBTQ plus specialists or advocates so that you so that, you know, if you are trying to go into an assisted living and you're getting pushback about trying to have a room with your partner, we have someone who is educated and knows, you know, what laws and protections exist to come and to advocate for you. You know, having a department that is able to maybe plan something like an intergenerational get together of some sort. Right? I think that we have this really cool opportunity right now where there's this big TikTok movement of, like, you know, younger adults doing what they're calling, like, grandma hobbies, which is, you know, the gardening and the baking and the crocheting. And I'm like, who better to learn that from Yeah.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:42:38

Than the population that's been doing this. So, like,

Al Cho [: 00:42:41

welcome to being a gerontologist. We love older people. This has been what we've been trying to say. Older people are the best.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:42:47

Like and so I think, yeah, I think the word intentional was what really hit me that you said, Al, because I think that's it. It's like, yes, you know, case management can be very broad, but when you talk about case management of LGBTQ plus adults and having that knowledge and education of their very specific things that they encounter, I think that is huge. Like, for example, I'm thinking of, like, it's not just helping get resources to food. Right? It's helping, because we know that chances are there's not a huge family there. So maybe there's more focus in that case management on social connection or, removing barriers to get folks out into the community. Just someone some some department kind of specially set aside to really be experts in those issues and be there to really advocate and, provide that really trauma informed care for their folks.

Al Cho [: 00:43:52

So if we get a call from an individual that has caregiving needs

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:43:57

Mhmm.

Al Cho [: 00:43:57

With caregiver specialists Mhmm. We now have housing specialists.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:44:02

Mhmm.

Al Cho [: 00:44:03

So it's I liken it sort of to that.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:44:06

Or

Al Cho [: 00:44:06

even when I think about when we're working with immigrants, migrants, and refugees Yeah. We have language line. Right? These are those intentional specific supports there to make people feel included, make sure people know we do want to help you. Yeah. And here are some additional ways that we are making sure that we're educated, that we're intentional, and that we're inclusive in doing that work.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:44:30

Yeah. Absolutely.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:44:32

And I think part of that too is not just education on LGBTQ plus folks, but even education on HIV. Absolutely. Right? Like our, we know based on research that our immigrant and refugee populations are, you know, definitely coming with high rates of HIV, unfortunately. And so being knowledgeable of how to navigate that, how to find infectious disease care and all of that. So, yeah, I think, I think that's kind of the same thing I'm thinking.

Al Cho [: 00:45:05

I agree with you.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:45:06

So, this

Al Cho [: 00:45:06

has just been an amazing conversation, and I so appreciate you both doing this. I can't wait to see the proposal. My guess is it's in my inbox by end of day.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:45:16

It's like, 5 points or 74 points. Yeah. I just came up with 4 new points I'd like to

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:45:22

add to it. So I was looking at it. It's already in there. Great.

Al Cho [: 00:45:26

Any closing thoughts? Any last things to share with the agency or listeners?

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:45:32

I think I would like to convey that your kindness and compassion matters to all of our people who are in community, who are supporting older adults in their homes and community, in their own lives. You know, I know that's that's pretty baseline, but it matters. Meeting people where they're at is critical, and to be very intentional, to listen to ourselves, the questions we ask, to think about how we listen. You know, it's not who's your spouse. It's who's important in your life. Yeah. It's what has been meaningful or challenging to you. Yeah.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:46:11

And I think that our listening and our compassion and being able to meet a person where they are is very much that critical element of change that we need.

Al Cho [: 00:46:22

And that's who we wanna be at Cedric Link.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:46:24

Yeah. Just in general. And I I think to, basically, this whole podcast, I've said, Al is great. I agree with Al. And, ditto.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:46:34

And and no.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:46:35

But to to to kinda to kinda build off of what you said, Al, I think that something I would really want folks to know is just that when you when you are listening, lean in. Right? So when someone says that's my roommate, don't roll your eyes or go on to what you're doing. Lean into that conversation. They are they may very well be seeing if you're safe for them to tell you their truth. Or, you know, if you are in a situation where someone says, yeah, I don't I don't you know, I don't have any family. Like, okay, well, who cares for you? Mhmm. And then building that importance of you are more than welcome to have your chosen family and we recognize them. And so when they mention, oh, maybe my, you know, so and so comes and sees me and blah blah blah, Treat them or talk about them like they're family because that's who they are to them.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:47:31

And so I think it's just really important that we don't get caught up in, I've got another visit. I've got another person to see. Give when folks give you the opportunity to show you who they are, lean into that, listen to them, and really give them even that 5 minutes of your kindness, because that 5 minutes may be the only time they've gotten all year. And to just keep that

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:47:55

in the

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:47:55

back of your mind.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:47:56

I also think that you can do a little bit of showing. It can be really subtle. You know, you can always put on your, your tag or something, like just a little rainbow something that someone might see. Ask people their pronouns or make it normal by telling them yours. We can do that in every aspect of our lives. And, you know, ask a person how they want to be treated, and then just show up for them in that way. And I I loved everything that you said there, Kayla, about just taking the moment life moves very quickly, but it is also all we have.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:48:29

Mhmm. Yeah. And the I the identity piece, I think, is huge too because I think sometimes folks will say will maybe ask someone about their pronouns or something like that, and then they'll say, oh, well, it says in the system this. Keep that to yourself. They don't need to know that. If they want to identify for me, I don't care if someone wants to, I'd identify as Barney. I will identify you however you wanna be identified because that is yours and honor that. Honor who people are telling you who they are, and don't discredit that.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:49:08

Yeah. Just, you know, we love our consumers, so we love them for who they are.

Al Cho [: 00:49:13

That's right. Thank you both so much. Absolutely.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:49:16

Thank you for hosting such

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:49:18

Thank you.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:49:18

Beautiful conversation that yeah. I just we are doing such amazing stuff here.

Al Cho [: 00:49:24

We are. Very great. We are. Thank you, guys.

Kayla Humphrey [: 00:49:27

Thanks.

Al Cho [: 00:49:31

I hope now you know something about LGBTQ plus elders.